Navigating the Ranks: Lauren Johnson’s Path from Firefighter to Assistant Chief Transcript

Lauren Johnson, Assistant Chief at Dallas Fire-Rescue, shares her unique career trajectory and the lessons learned along the way. Discover the trials and triumphs of moving up through the ranks, the importance of mentorship and how she balances the demands of her role with family life.

Transcript

Craig Weaver: Welcome to Response Leadership, brought to you by the Texas A&M Engineering Extension Service, a leader in response training. We are a podcast bringing you stories of leadership, expertise and insights on career paths from across the response industry. I’m your host, Craig Weaver. I work in marketing and communications here at TEEX.

Today, our guest is Lauren Johnson, assistant chief at Dallas Fire-Rescue. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for being here today.

Lauren Johnson: Thanks for having me.

Craig Weaver: Yeah. You’ve been someone that we’ve wanted to get for a while. Right after you spoke at our Women of TEEX, and we were all sitting in the back halfway through your talk going, “We have to get her for the podcast”. It’s been a crazy summer, so we’re just now speaking to you, but I really appreciate you giving us your time. I heard you speak there. Well, I don’t know how long ago that was. A couple months. Three months. I don’t remember.

Lauren Johnson: Just June, I think.

Craig Weaver: Yeah. Okay. It’s been a little bit.

Lauren Johnson: Yes.

Craig Weaver: And then we spoke a little bit last week. I’ll just jump right in. You’re the Assistant Chief at Dallas Fire-Rescue, and you really didn’t start out wanting to do that. You wanted to go to medical school.

Lauren Johnson: Big Change.

Craig Weaver: Tell us that story. How did you get from there to where you are?

Lauren Johnson: Sure. Huge question and lots of different directions we could go, but it started, I was in college at Trinity University in San Antonio, and I thought I wanted to go to medical school, so I thought that the best first step would be to do an EMT program. And so I took my first DMT class, in addition to my college classes, and started doing ride-outs with San Antonio’s fire department.

And I just found this whole world of, you know, firefighters and paramedics and life at the fire station and, you know, really an immediate return on effort, I guess, in terms of helping people, and I was I was really hooked. And I guess, you know, for better or worse, I was in my first year in college and taking pre-med courses like calculus and chemistry, and I found out that I was awful at those.

So even if I still wanted to go to med school, I think my grades weren’t going to make it, and it just turned into this thing that I loved, and, like I said, didn’t know was an option. So, I went to intermediate and then paramedic school and worked as a private ambulance paramedic while I was in college, just to make a little bit of extra money.

And, you know, the story I tell about that, that I think is hilarious, is that I was 19 when I got certified. So, the ambulance company’s insurance wouldn’t carry me as a driver, but they would leave me in the back of an ambulance by myself with a patient making these lifesaving decisions.

Craig Weaver: You just kept driving around.

Lauren Johnson: I couldn’t drive, but I could, you know, make all these medical decisions.

Craig Weaver: Well, so you found out pretty quickly that something that was on your radar, as soon as you start to get a taste of it, you were in.

Lauren Johnson: I was hooked. I think that the thing that’s been so important to me since then really was the camaraderie, the teamwork and definitely a little bit of the, you know, it’s different every day. That really, I think, was what hooked me from the beginning.

Craig Weaver: I asked you this last week, you don’t fight fires now, do you miss it?

Lauren Johnson: So much. That’s some of the best times with your coworkers. It’s just really feeling like you’ve put in hard work together, and then, of course, the excitement of it actually being a fire.

So, I miss that. I really do miss being kind of public-facing. My job for the last several years has been a lot more inside the department just to help our members, but I definitely miss the 911 calls and being on the engine or the truck or the rescue, all those things. It’s just so great when things go well and when you can be there to help.

Craig Weaver: What does the path look like from a firefighter to climb the ranks to chief? Like, what does that look like? How did that happen?

Lauren Johnson: It’s hard to think back to how it happened. One of the things I remember first is, well, to give you some background. So, we’re a civil service organization, but it’s a city civil service. So, we have a separate city department that really decides how our promotions and our hiring processes go. But I was not eligible for the first driver’s test, which would be the first promotable rank. I missed the deadline by like two weeks because of when our rookie class finished, and how much time you had to have on.

And so, at the at the time, of course, I think everybody in my class, we were all bummed that we couldn’t just go take a test and get promoted straight in. But the great part of that is that it kept us in the current rank for longer and gave us some more experience, and then, really set us up to start that promotional process, you know, a year or two later.

And so, throughout the ranks, up through battalion chief, it’s mostly a written test. And then once you get to the officer ranks of lieutenant, captain, battalion chief, there’s also an assessment center, which is really a three-day “what would you do” scenario in terms of an emergency incident and a personnel issue and maybe a policy issue.

So, I think along the way I’ve joked, but it’s not really a joke that many times I promoted out of self-defense. So there’s times that in any large organization, on one hand, you look around and you start thinking, “Gosh, I’d rather be in charge of me than so-and-so being in charge of me.” That was one thing that was on my mind.

But I mean, really, to give credit where credit’s due, on the other hand, you look around and I think I had some really great role models that were inspiring and that I wanted to be like. And I really felt I liked the feeling of responsibility, of having a group that was my work group.

And, you know, often I think it can sound too possessive. Sometimes when we talk about our work group, you know, using words like they were mine or my guys or my girls, but, that’s really, you know, how most of us speak and really take it to heart that it is that kind of a responsibility, and I take it really seriously and wanted it.

Craig Weaver: All humility aside, do you feel like you’ve always gravitated towards leadership-type positions or just being a leader?

Lauren Johnson: I think so. I think that I’m driven, you know, at this point, I have to write a lot of resumes or things like that to talk about well, you know, who am I? And so, one of the things I like to say is that I’m somebody that really wants to be in a position that has influence over X, Y and Z.

And so, a lot of times, no matter what the topic is, it’s a leadership position, so that is what I’m interested in. And I think I, you know, I’m the firstborn kid in my family. My dad was a firstborn kid in his family. So, I think that there’s something to that birth order is where you’re meant to be in charge. Or, as things kept going here in Dallas, it’s really been something and, you know, an honor and a privilege, but something that I wanted to keep working hard at to stay in those roles.

Craig Weaver: You have something you kind of follow or define as leadership in your position?

Lauren Johnson: That’s a good question. I’ll tell you that I think very simply, it’s being able to get others to follow you. And a lot of times, we think about being able to mobilize resources toward a common goal. But I think the difference, you know, between that which could be management and leadership is really the intangible piece of trust and that, maybe even if you don’t know where you’re going, you’re going to follow that leader because of your relationship.

So, I would say that that’s something that’s really important to me. What I stay invested in is trying to build relationships and trust.

Craig Weaver: You’d mentioned it a little bit ago. How important in your career have mentors, influencers, role models been?

Lauren Johnson: So important. I’ll tell you that. I think when I first got hired, I could have never imagined what next steps would look like. I didn’t know anything about the rank structure in the department or roles and responsibilities, and it was really more that I gravitated towards people just because of the kind of leader that they were. And, you know, as I look for those people throughout the department and got to see what jobs they were involved in doing, that really helped me understand the possibilities.

I’ve had, for sure, a handful of mentors that really let me believe that I could do more or could be a leader in the organization. I think this was something that I mentioned during the TEEX talk, but there were not any women in the positions that I have promoted to. And I say that because it makes me realize how important it is that men actually helped me move along in these places and helped me learn, you know, as an officer and a leader, both kind of the strategies and tactics that’s actually associated with the job.

But then, also, it gave me legitimacy kind of in our peer groups so that I did have the training and the background to move into the next rank. And I could not have done that without several of those people reaching their hand out, saying, you can do this, and let me show you the way.

Craig Weaver: You just said there weren’t female role models for you to aspire to be, so you kind of had to just work it out. Has that been tough?

Lauren Johnson: Yeah. And, you know, it’s funny. Just as much as you hesitate to ask the question, I hesitate to give an answer from that standpoint because it hasn’t been something that, until recently, I was even okay with saying, that yeah, I think I’ve had a different experience because I’m a woman in a male-dominated field. For the longest time, it was just I wanted to say, “Hey, I’m just one of the guys. Treat me just like I’m one of the guys. I’m fine.” I really do think that now that I’m on this side of things and in a leadership position and a position of power, really, in the organization, I want to be able to tell people that, you know, I have had a different experience and others for a variety of reasons, who may be minorities on the job. They are likely to feel differently or experience some of the things we say or do in a different way than the way it’s always been.

Craig Weaver: Well, on the flip side of that, do you feel that you’re a mentor to others? Have you had conversations like that, or do you feel that in your career?

Lauren Johnson: You know, not until recently. I would say I think that it’s been something that I’ve been intentional about over the last several years. But for a long time, I think we all have operated kind of around each other without acknowledging the relationships that we could have as mentors or coaches or even just allies or finding kind of sponsors and an organization that’ll help connect you to that next person that’s going to help you learn something, for example.

So it’s I, I am interested in being more of a mentor and like I said, just recently have developed kind of more formal, you know, they definitely developed organically in terms of just knowing somebody. But finally, being in a different position in the organization and having people come up and want to move up as well. So we’ve been doing a lot more talking, and I really enjoyed getting to be on that side of it and try to give back.

Craig Weaver: Well, you got into this to fight fires, to help people. How different does your day-to-day existence look as assistant chief versus just being an on-the-ground firefighter? What are your duties? What does your week look like? I’m sure it looks different every week, but, generally speaking, what do your weeks look like?

Lauren Johnson: Right. I’m laughing because I think all you have to do is look at my step counter on my watch that says, well, you sure stand a lot or stand in one place a lot. So, my current duties: I’m over our communications group and logistics. So, in addition to our dispatch center and the technology, that kind of comes along with supporting the entire department. I’ve got facilities, so, all of our fire stations and then clothing and supplies. So, everything that’s not emergency equipment, but that we would wear or use to treat people, in terms of EMS supplies and station supplies, so, it’s a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff now that I’m responsible for in terms of just making sure that all those shops run properly. I think, big picture, I should be involved in setting the vision and what’s the next step? Where do we want to be in five or 10 years? And, how do we put the pieces in place now to get there? So that’s one of the exciting things, I think, that comes with being at this level. But gosh, so different from working 24 hours, having two days off, really just go, go, go with the fire station.

My most recent assignment as a deputy, I was out at a fire station and had the same 24 hours on, 48 hours off. I worked at a place where the engine and the rescue were busy and great guys, and the bells would go off, and they’d hit the door. And that happens to them, you know, 10 to 20 times a day. It would happen to me once or twice a week because I was only assigned on the big, serious incidents. So, it’s really different and a lot more office work than what I grew up with, for sure.

Craig Weaver: What was the learning curve like? You’re dealing with things now that you never have dealt with, never even intended to deal with, but it’s part of your job now. Did you have a lot to figure out?

Lauren Johnson: For sure. Thank goodness, you know, along the way, there’s some professional development certifications and things like that that can help with, teaching me and others really how to do budgeting and how to do strategic planning. There’s always a difference between what you’ve learned in the books and then what actually happens.

And so, you know, I think I spent a lot of time going to our finance folks, especially, and asking about money and budgets, and then there’s so much to the networking side of things at City Hall and learning who does what and who needs to be involved in these decisions. I think that’s a big gap.

One thing we do out of the fire station, when you’re learning how to do the next rank up, you know, you’ve ridden next to that person. So, private has ridden next to a driver, or a driver’s ridden next to a lieutenant or a captain, so that they kind of see them for 24 hours at a time. They see the duties that they do. And so, they learn just by being with that person. That’s a great setup. But once we kind of make it into those executive ranks, we haven’t been sitting next to the person that did the job before us. So, just like you said, it’s a big learning curve.

Craig Weaver: Do you find it tough to delegate?

Lauren Johnson: I do. I’ve had the hardest time trying to figure out, well, what’s okay to keep and what should I pass on. And that’s come a little bit with personnel changes that we have in the department just because people rotate through positions so quickly and aren’t really in staff positions for a long time. So, that institutional knowledge just gets lost as we move people in and out. And, you know, I think we all have the same hang-up about delegating, which is that we realize, you know, if I just did this first, myself, then it would get done. If I want to do the thing right, it does involve delegating and teaching others how to do that and letting them make mistakes. For a big group of mostly type-A folks, you know, releasing that control and then letting them navigate on their own, I think that definitely there’s some room for improvement for our group.

Craig Weaver: How difficult is it to balance your job and your personal life? Well, you’re a busy person.

Lauren Johnson: I am. I’ve got two young kids, so they’re five and seven and a working husband and a dog that makes for a full household. And, I think, you know, when we spoke last week just to set things up for today, and you were asking about major challenges, and I would say, hands down, that’s the hardest thing for me. I feel like I’m really two different people: one person at work and a completely different person at home. And I didn’t realize when that was happening. I think it’s just evolved that I’ve got a certain way that I act at work and a certain way I conduct myself, and that includes showing probably no vulnerability and, you know, just a really different set of emotions.

So, it’s important to me that the people at work know that I care about them. But if my husband were to, you know, drop me off out in front of the office and want to give me a kiss goodbye, but I’m in my uniform, it’s like, no. So, yeah, I mean, that is just a perfect example of how even at social events, you know, firefighters are really social.

And it’s so good for our work group to get together for Christmas parties and banquets and all that stuff. But I think there’s something to I still haven’t found how to be comfortable, both as, like a mom and a wife and an assistant fire chief or even in previous ranks. That’s been super hard.

Craig Weaver: What would you say to a 20-year-old version of yourself, looking back, what would you make changes? What advice would you give yourself?

Lauren Johson: Oh, gosh. I would say slow down. I think at that age, I was in such a hurry to check all the boxes. Right. Find a partner, get married, buy a house, take all the promotional tests, be great at work, and put so much pressure on myself to do those things. On one hand, I think I really thrive under pressure, so I like that kind of environment. But I think it was completely, you know, a whole bunch of unnecessary stress.

I find myself telling coworkers, especially younger ones, that may have come into my office for a disciplinary reason or just for something that’s not good, that, this is just a blip. You know, whatever this incident is, whatever this station assignment, discipline. You know, where I am for a year in my career. Looking back now, 26, 27 years, you just realize that it all is fine. Time heals so many things. Just enjoy every minute. There were so many of my coworkers who I remember listening to stories from and really learning firefighting is such an experiential career. You have to learn from every incident. But then we don’t have enough of those incidents. So, you have to start learning from what others have said. And so, we’ve gotten to be such a digital technology-based, you know, in our own little space that, one of the most valuable things we can do is just sit around the table and talk to each other. Spend more time doing that. And then, the other things will fall into place.

Craig Weaver: What are some pieces of advice that you give to someone just getting into this field?

Lauren Johnson: You know, I think it’s changed over time. I really needed the perspective because I think if I had answered this question even 10 years ago, I think I would have still said, be a hard charger all the time.

And I think TEEX has done a ton with mental health and realizing that there are so many other pieces that we need to address. I would look for that balance and encourage others to look for that balance sooner. One thing that I really emphasize now, especially in a department our size, is there’s a spot for everybody.

And so even if you’re having one bad experience or one not great work experience, there are other places where you can be, so many of our younger members, for one reason or another, didn’t have a great experience and then just decide the fire service isn’t for me, but I think it takes more time.

Initially, stuff is really hard. You know, we’re doing things that most people, I think all of us are not used to seeing and shouldn’t get used to seeing. And so, I think it took us a long time to realize the impact that just the work environment could have on the rest of our lives, whether that’s a home or a hobby, how you deal with family, how you deal with your friends. So, I think if we slow down and can dig into that a little bit, at an earlier age we’ll be set up for more success later on.

Craig Weaver: What would you say is the most difficult part of your position? Your job?

Lauren Johnson: I’ll say, you know, it’s cliche, but it’s lonely at the top. And I’m not the number one in the department for sure. I think it’s even harder on him. But there’s a lot riding on your shoulders, and I think, something that another chief had said years ago when he was talking about the divide between kind of the rank and file and then those at City Hall, he said, you know, I can tell you that every single person at City Hall comes to work and they’re doing their best to make the right decision. And it’s like, that’s all you really want the rank and file to realize is that even though sometimes we have to make some really tough decisions, I definitely think we can always work to communicate better about reasons and why and timing. I think kind of counteracting that feeling of, gosh, I’m going to work every day trying to make the right decision.

But yeah, man, if you pull up Facebook, or if you pull up just a regular, group chat, for example, you know, we’re getting bashed. And I think that that’s not specific to Dallas Fire-Rescue, but one of the things we’ve always said, firefighters love to do is complain. And, you know, it’s like our right, and that’s what we do. So, I can say that because I was one and I am one, but I wish that that part of management and labor realize that we’re working towards the same goal. It’s hard feeling like we’re the bad guys when we’re the same people that we were at the fire station trying to do the right thing. And now our decisions are about different things, but our hearts are in the same place.

Craig Weaver: What is the most rewarding part of your job?

Lauren Johnson: Oh, great question. I think it’s still getting to help people. And at this point, for me, it’s feeling like maybe I’ve given the people that are doing the real work the right tools or the right support or the feeling just that they’re cared for. And I’d say that’s definitely the most rewarding thing is when I can still see somebody that’s out in the field and shake their hand and say, “Great job,” or “I’m here for you if you need something.” Then to realize that they know it and that really is rewarding and definitely makes me feel good.

Craig Weaver: Thank you so much for your time today and your answers. I really appreciate you doing this.

Lauren Johnson: Thank you. It was an honor to get the phone call, and I think the world of TEEX as an organization and the people that work for it, and so I’m just really glad to get to be a part of it.

Craig Weaver: Thank you for listening to Response Leadership, brought to you by the Texas A&M Engineering Extension Service. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please leave a review and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts or visit us at teex.org/podcast. New episodes are released on the fourth Tuesday of every month.